An Douar, Brittany

Has anybody had any rent or any contact from anyone about

An Douar. The silence is getting very worrying.

I have been trying to get some information from Residelia (

with no success) and from C'est la Vie.

I am being ignored.

Could other owners please update on their experiences. It

would be helpful if we stuck together here.

Just picking up the threads after the holidays. we spoke to Bertrand about 2 weeks ago, and he seemed to think some progress was being made with Goelia. He also said he would send something round by the end of August.

Can we work out how many folk are using the blog, and are we all in touch with Bertrand?

Also how did the legal process mentioned earlier in the thread end? Again, if it has tipped Residelia into administration please let us know? Personally, we would like to see a full resolution to the current situation so that by next summer season we will be getting an income and certainty going forwards. Rent due and compensation etc take a back seat to certainty going forwards......
cheers

Hi all,

Good to see that there is some activity with owners- all

be it to little avail.

I am also waiting for information from Bertrand at the

end of July. It will be important that we are all

communicating.

Lets hope for a something positive.

Hi Greenfintry

Thanks for that will contact them directly and give my details will keep

you posted. Let's hope we see an end to this soon, it has been going

on for so long.

Regards

Hi Greenfintry,

I am of same opinion as you and I am also using Bertrand from Ce la vie. Like you say he appears to making good progress at the moment and I received a response from him on Monday saying "French owners want to challenge the proposal from Goelia and asked for more proposals. They asked one of the initial seller to get more proposal before end of July". We should hear more at the end of July. Its definately looking more promising I think.

Thanks,

Julian

We have been trying to get an integrated approach going forwards with

much of this activity being shown on this blog and also using Bertrand

at c'est la vie. We and he would be interested to join forces both to

recover money due and also to ensure a good contract with a new

Management firm going forwards. Bertrand seems to be making

progress with Residelia and Goelia at the moment, and I would suggest

you contact him direct. We are all keen to be unified and not to

reinvent the wheel. Please advise on what we can do to help etc

Cheers

Hi all, just came across this forum. We too are owners of one of these

apartments. We are one of two Irish owners and have joined with 12

other French investors that are going down the legal route. The lawyer

we have engaged is Harve Gardey ( Praxes Avocats) . He is is situated

in Paris. If anyone is interested in his details get back to me. Our case

was heard last Monday and are still waiting for a judgment.

I too have been trying to contact C'est La Vie chasing an

update on the management company problem, but was told that

"they are very bust with the end of tax year." Its

refreshing to hear that Bertrand is still chasing a

solution. He has always been honest and has his clients

best interests at heart. I trust that he will find a

solution and like the rest of you will await his update.

Hopefully we will shortly start receiving a rental income

again.

Hi All,

It appears that Bertrand is negotiating with other owners

regarding switching management company. It seems like

approx 20 of 60 owners are in touch with him and looking

to move to Goelia. The process of switching management

company etc needs a take up of about 2/3 so there is a

bit of a way to go. It would be important for everybody

to make contact with Bertrand to make their views known.

There is possibly very little likelihood of any rent from

Residelia

It seems to me that Goelia will at least be reliable and

maybe more honorable in their dealings.

We should receive something on this in the next few

weeks.

If anyone has any further information please post on the

forum.

I managed to speak to Bertrand yesterday. He has been persisting in trying

to make progress with An Douar, but it is very slow, mainly due to the

reluctance of the French owners to terminate their leases with Residelia,

preferring to hold onto the vain hope of gaining the rental arrears from

them while they are still our management company. Bertrand continues to

feel frustrated at this position.

Apparently M. Huiban at Shelter-Invest is doing nothing active to move the

situation forward with the French at the moment. However, Bertrand has

been in touch with a M. Cazes, who is representing 6 - 7 of the French

owners. This group is now apparently keen on going with the offer from

Goelia, and Bertrand and M. Cazes will try to work together to co-ordinate

with the various owners. The next stage is that the two of them will contact

their respective clients in 2 - 3 weeks' time with a summary of the present

situation, and, presumably, a recommendation as to how to proceed. Once

they have heard back from their clients, they will contact ALL the owners -

it's possible for them to obtain the whole list - to suggest that we might

already be approaching a majority situation and try to move forward with

Goelia etc.

I know that this is one of the busiest times of the year for C'Est La Vie as

they have to do tax returns before the end of the month. We'll wait to hear

from Bertrand, but I'll try him again if he hasn't contacted us by the second

week in June. I hope this is helpful - we'll put something on the forum

about this information.

Hi

We have been in touch with Bertrand but were waiting for

the end of the holiday period for some up to date

information. It is now a year since Residelia have paid

any rent!

This is quite frustrating. If Residelia has gone into

administration what does this mean for the owners? Doeas

this mean that the lease is broken.

Also I recall promises of something positive happening in

March, June and July also. We are getting a little

sceptical at this stage. But in the meantime we have no

rent and Residelia appear to be merrily renting out our

property all Summer. Basically I want a rental income and

the situation rectified asap.

This has dragged out a long time- 9 months with no rent

while the property is still being rented by Residelia!!

There appears to be a lot of stonewalling.

I am totally fed up with this.

Has anybody had any recent update from Bertrand?

Does anybody have a contact with the French Syndicate?

In the recent letter that we received from Residelia

it says You should have received a letter from Residélia.

The letter says:

• They may be able to pay you after the opening of

the resort so from April 2012 (it does not say how much

and when)

• The figures of the management are very low

because:

o of the 2008 crisis, the competition of campsites

which are offering swimming pool and entertainment in

summer,

o Poor climate in 2011,

o Opening of a new leaseback of Pierre & Vacances

in Audierne

o Increase of prices in energy.

The mother company is not invoicing any expenses to

Residelia. From 2011, the mother company of Residelia

became hit by the economic crisis also and a solution

must be found.

They propose to reduce the rent by 55% but they also

agree to cancel the leases if you wish in order to put a

new management company.

I am happy to cancel the lease - but how do we go about

this?

We should wait to see if there is a reply from Bertrand, but it would be

worth looking at our own skill mix for the battles ahead......

I am a hospital doctor, so have no legal or financial background or

knowledge at all (Might explain how we ended up in this scheme!?!). Any

lawyers/accountants etc in the group?

Hi

Apparently as all owners pay taxe fonciere they are all

registered with the tax office and we can request a list

of owners.

This should be a start then we can contact all owners and

decide on a joint course of action.

On another point - what is Goelia's current position in

all of this - as per Bertrand's e-mail above?

No new developments with Residelia to report. Does anyone have a link to

any French owners? There is allegedly a group going forward with legal

action. At this stage, this sounds inevitable, and far better to be part of a

larger group........

How can Residelia be negotiating a new lease through a

third party? Surely they should be liaising with owners

direct, particularly if they are looking to change the

terms of the original lease. Have you authorised someone

else to negotiate on your behalf (eg, an independent fully

qualified French lawyer), is that why you haven't heard

anything directly? If you haven't heard anything, how can

you agree to the takeover? Until matters settle, I would

imagine it would be very difficult to find a buyer.

This is not my residence so probably shouldn't really

comment, but "net turnover"? Sounds like a figure that

could be subject to manipulation?

Has anyone from this residence sought proper legal advice?

How do you know you will receive the rent if you agree to

the new terms?

Hi folks, Just got this in from Bertrand. PLEASE NOTE THE TIMESCALE!!

Dear clients,

We received a proposal from Goelia that you will find in attachment. It is

in French so I will explain the main points:

- lease will start the 1st March 2012, and the resort could open the 7th

April,

- need at least 80% of owners signing the new leases,

- rent 45% of the net turnover with a minimum of 40.000e per quarter to

share among all owners, which is in fact a decrease of approx 47% of the

rent

- personal occupancy: same as before,

- 100% of co-ownership paid by GOELIA

I will send this proposal to French owners. I will contact the Residelia in

order to get payment of the rent, cancel the leases if owners agree.

You may organise a meeting with owners and will keep you informed.

Kind regards

Bertrand

Bertrand LE MIRE

8 rue Alphonse Daudet

44350 Guérande, FRANCE

Tel: 0033 (0) 240 157 485

Fax: 0033 (0) 240 157 495

bertrand@clvproperties.com

If you want the attachments please email me on my home email

martinstjturner@mac.com as I don't think it is possible to put attachments

through the forum? Happy to forward the whole email.

Personally, best to get on with this and ensure that we get 100% of

something than 0% of anything in the year going forwards.

Hi All,

I want to be clear about the new lease and I understood

"The common areas will be returned to us as (i.e. the

owners of aprtments) compensation for the loss of yield.

Is this still the case with the current new lease

contract.

Because, the new contract says common area will be at the

disposal of GOELIA.

Can some one explain this ?

Thanks

Kana

I guess we have all figured the points out that you are making...... Are you hinting or going somewhere else with these thoughts????

For all those who have already signed the new contract

and those who have not signed

Do you not feel almost a fraud has been committed on you

by first signing with Goelia, then Goelia inserted

Residallia and after they have gotten your money

Resdidallia defaulted and back to Goelia with 50%

reduction in rent.

Any leaseback value is intrinsically connected to its

yield and you have lost 50% of initial value of your

investment, and guess what it was Goelia/Residallia

façade pocketed your money and Goelia had chopped into

its pocket. Amusingly, it is Goelia now plays a saviour

role with your big portion of your money.

Are you not at least resentful and felt betrayed about

this whole saga (well for Goelia it is) and I would say

it is bordering scam and fraud.

I think Goelia has to pay compensation to the investors

and although it may be wishful thought at this point in

time.

Please take time to reflect.

Kana

Thanks for that I am going to email him now. Let you know

how I get on.

elphin88

I am sure he would like to hear from you. His email is

bertrand@clvproperties.com. Not sure how you have not had a contact

from Goelia as supposedly all owners have been sent details?.! Not

like it is such a huge development is it?

Cheers

Hi Greenfintry

I am wondering if you could give me the email of Bertrand.

We have had very little contact from anyone in the past 6

month. We would be interested in going along with the

owners who have signed up with Goelia. Through our French

lawyer we managed to get about 1/4 of what we were owed

before the Christmas. Thanks for your help

elphin88

Just had an email in from C'est La Vie saying 70% of owners have signed for the management role to be taken over by Goelia, so this should now be going ahead. If you missed the boat I guess it might still be possible to join ...... might be best to email Bertrand?

Hi All,

I received an e-mail before Christmas to say that

Residelia were paying one quarter rent in final

settlement. However no money appeared in my bank account.

When I queried this I was informed that Residelia cannot

be contacted anymore so therefore nothing can be got from

the company. It appears that some owners received rent.

But most did not. Can any one confirm this?

In short it appears through my enquiry that there is

little hope to recover anything from Residelia at this

stage.

Does anyone know what the situation is with the Goelia

contract? Is this 'up and running'. Can we expect some

rent?

I am not sure that it is possible to explain this........ There are

supposedly two processes going on, a new management firm Goelia

that will run the complex ( so will need the common areas and frankly I

would want them to cover the running costs of the pool etc) and the title

of the common areas that were not previously apportioned to owners

but was held by the builder and Residelia. If we are to get anything

back from Residelia I suspect the common area may be about the only

asset that we might stand a chance of clawing back......

I do not have any idea how the process of recovering what we might be

due from Residelia is progressing however. Hope this helps

We are still in contact with C'est la Vie and Bertrand. He has been meeting

with some of the French owners, and an offer to the over the residence is

imminent:

"Dear Clients

I would like to give you an update on the situation in An Douar.

We contacted Goelia and we will receive a proposal of Goelia this week or

next week without the help of the former management company.

Unfortunately they will propose a 50 percent decrease plus a variable rent.

We will try to improve the proposal of course.

Regarding the payment of the rent, we will contact Residelia and if no news

will start a legal route.

As soon as I have news I will contact you.

Kind regards

Bertrand LE MIRE

8 rue Alphonse Daudet

44350 Guérande, FRANCE

Tel: 0033 (0) 240 157 485

Fax: 0033 (0) 240 157 495"

We have not had any rent either but suspect that this should start to move.

Suggest you all get in touch with Bertrand as the more of us the stronger

the negotiation position.....

greenfintry

A couple of us are thinking of setting up a facebook page to carry forward issues about An Douar, and would like to get as many owners to subscribe as possible. Please can any of you occasional visitors express some views and any news of developments before we embark on this process?

Thanks

Sorry about the blank post... pushed the wrong button!

Everyone should by now have received the Goelia offer from Bertrand. Hopefully there will be 70% of signatures to carry this through... As part of the process, all the foreign and French owners are listed with their postal addresses. It would seem sensible to establish some sort of closed facebook page or similar so that we could all keep each other up to date with future developments etc. Can everyone identify themselves (maybe by sending a private email with contact details etc...) and if anyone is a whizz at facebook or similar, maybe a volunteer to set up the space??

greenfintry41260.9134375

According to CLV last week Mr DELHAL (Residelia) is not

replying to telephone calls. So there is no update on

when they plan on paying the money promised. Apparently

GOELIA have paid Residelia some rent.

Bertrand of CLV does not think we should to sign the

lease before the rents have been paid. Indeed, if you

sign the lease with GOELIA, this will break the one with

RESIDELIA and there will no more guarantee to get the

payment from Mr DELHAL.

I am waiting for information for Bertrand to speak to Mr

LABRUNE, from GOELIA.

This is all the information that I have.

Does anyone have any further update on this?

I think we are all getting the same email from C'est la Vie. Just waiting to see the money and some form of formal communication of a move to Goelia....

Hi,

I have received an email from C'est La Vie that there will be payments from RESIDELIA.

Have you had any communications from anywhere about this.

Your lawyers or CLV.

Kana

Hi,

Have you heard anything from Bertrand or anyone else?

This is going on for too long.

Thanks
Kana

Does anyone know who Mr. Cazes is? Has anyone had any

contact with Mr. Delhal? What was the outcome of teh

legal proceedings mentioned in an earlier post?

So many questions and NO answers.

On a slightly more positive note. We didn't have a

problem booking at An Douar. You can contact the

residence by telephone at: 00.33.2.98.70.04.00 or by fax

at: 00.33.2.98.70.27.32 or by email to

info.audierne@residelia.fr. Philipe is the residence

manager and is really quite helpful. We had a very

pleasant time there in June.

So at least I am able to offer some good news.

LATEST MESSAGE TODAY FROM C'EST LA VIE:

Dear Clients,

I hope you’re all keeping well and you had a nice summer.

This morning, with Bertrand, I made an update of the situation regarding An

Douar.

Mr CAZES could not find another management company and he agrees to

convince owners to sign a leaseback with GOELIA. French owners agreed to

sign with GOELIA. The contract should be sent soon if GOELIA still agrees to

manage AN DOUAR.

Bertrand and I, for different reasons, tried to contact Mr DELHAL, from

RESIDELIA, but it’s been very hard to get in touch with him and neither

Bertrand nor I could talk to him yet.

Bertrand wishes Mr Delhal to pay some rents to all of you. I really hope

Bertrand will be able to talk to him before he goes for holiday.

Some of you did contact me to know how to proceed to book their free

weeks for holidays at An Douar. Bertrand advises you to contact directly the

residence to plan their stays. I will also inform the residence that you will

contact them regarding this matter and you will not have to pay for your

stay.

Yes, count me in joint action.

Individual action will not be effective and joint action

will make Residelia realise it will be serious and

persistent.

Of course what ever the burden, it will be shared so no one

will suffer too much pain.

Kana

We are also in the same boat, and will be out in Audierne next week. We

use CLV and Bertrand is by far the most switched on Accountant etc in

dealing with these problems. We have another leaseback in the Alps that

now has the management company in receivership etc. It has been going

on for 2 years already....... We will need to have an incorporated residents

association, hopefully with a significant number of French owners as this

bolsters leverage locally. That said, CLV is engaged by at least 10 owners

and we would recommend anyone not using them for accounts etc to get in

touch..... We should wait to hear back from Bertrand and to let him steer

the process as his expertise includes finding replacement management

companies etc. So while the situation is not great, believe us it could be a

whole lot worse..... We might need to negotiate a different package with

Residelia.... maybe more time/option to let friends use it etc but less

money for a few years as variation on the contract. It needs to be done very

carefully to avoid VAT liability etc, let Bertrand take the lead

here's hoping

Hi

Although this is good news I agree that we need to take concerted action that this does not occur again. The outcome of the meeting on 6 October regarding the future should dictate our future action.

I haven't been able to check my french bank account yet, so I hope that I have been paid.

Regards

There was a payment on 23rd September 2011 for Euro

1476.21 made by Residelia.

Some of you may already have been paid by Residelia. So

check you bank French bank account.

However, I believe we should still take some form action

to make sure Residelia understand the implications and

the same kind of issues does not reoccur.

I go this email from Bertrand of CLV.

Dear Client,

We have set up a meeting with the management company of

An Douar, the 6th October at 10.30AM at head office with

Mr Delhal. Our objective is to claim the unpaid rent for

our clients only and to anticipate the future.

I know that under our pressure some rent just have been

paid. Please could you check your French bank statement

as today’s date and confirm ASAP if payment of the

quarter June –July-August has been made?

We will send you the minutes of the meeting next week.

Kind regards

Bertrand LE MIRE

8 rue Alphonse Daudet

44350 Guérande, FRANCE

Tel: 0033 (0) 240 157 485

Fax: 0033 (0) 240 157 495

bertrand@clvproperties.com

Yes I am happy to do this- wait and then contact a solicitor. I think we should also press CLV for contact with other owners. I will be sending an e-mail asking them to forward my contact details to other owners.

Jussi - that isn't the way to do it. The sales agents will not help you, either offically or unofficially. If you think they care about you, you are being naive and the chances of sticking a legal rap on them is very small indeed. The Syndic is obliged by law to provide details of all owners on request; I can't remember exactly under what particular law this obligation arises but you will probably find it somewhere on this site. Write to the Syndic in French by registered letter asking for this information. One other poster on this forum was given the information by her local French tax office, although that must have been unofficially. One other means of doing it is simply to turn up at the residence, offer the residence manager 50 Euros or a nice lunch and ask him to give a list of owners to you in return. If none of this works, you may probably conclude that the developers, managers and Syndic are in cahoots. This is the voice of very sorry experience speaking and I hate to see people re-inventing the wheel.

I would suggest we write to whoever sold us the property informing them that the leaseback is not working and that we would like to be put in touch with other purchasers. Data protection means that they cannot put us in direct contact but they could pass along messages from us asking others to contact us. I think they will cooperate as if I was them I would want to keep us onside as they do not want us lumping the agents into the whole sorry business which would be our other recourse.

In terms of next steps, it seems that we can apply relatively cheaply for a court injunction that can compel them to pay and if they chose not to plunder their bank accounts for the money. I found this which looks interesting and relevant http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/working-in-fran ce/letting-property/legal-proceedings/

I agree we need to get together in a joint action. What do

people suggest?

CLV have been in contact and have suggested waiting until

the end of September - if nothing has happened by then they

will send a 'demand de payer'. If we wait until we see the

outcome of this perhaps then we could engage a french

solicitor.

We also need to keep trying to find other owners.

Dear Bertrand,

Thank you for the report on the meeting about An Douar.  We are

staying there for the next week, and it is good to know that Goelia are

in the frame going forwards.

There are some major concerns for us regarding both the termination

of the current contract and the loss we suffer as a result.  Firstly, it

seems surprising that the transfer of the current contract does not

seem to offer us any protection, given that it was signed in good faith

for a period of 9 years, and if we were to have left the deal we would

be subject to penalties.

The reduced rental return proposed effectively devalues the worth of

our property based on the rental yield by 33%.  We are unsure

whether the offer of buying the common areas would be set against

this loss.  Also, in terms of the arrangements at An Douar, it is not

immediately clear if the common area includes the hotel rooms.  Either

way, it would be useful to know if these areas generate extra income

or merely attract potential additional liabilities through use (the pool

area etc).

If the common areas are acquired, would is be based on a

proportional basis by apartment value, and what happens if some

owners do not wish to buy into this proposal?  Would the common

area be held by a owners association, or how would this work?

We are around during the week on a French mobile phone number if

you wish to give us a call,

We just sent this to Bertrand, I would suggest (based on our

experience in the Alps), that trying to go it alone etc will just run into

the sand and cost lots in lawyers fees. The attitude of the French

owners will be critical as all these contracts require agreement from

the majority of owners to be enacted

Hi,

I also am an unhappy An Douar leaseback owner. I got my via Leapfrog Properties unlike the rest of you. I have received one rent and got stonewalled when asking for other payments. I suspect we should actually be taking joint action as collectively as we lease the property to Residelia as a leaseback who then seem to lease on to Goelia. If we take our individual flats back and they fall outside the scheme we would be liable for VAT on the purchase. So perhaps we should track down as many people as we can and share the costs.

In addition I suspect we should be charging Residelia interest on the unpaid debts. As noted the place is let so there should be money. I thi

John

Good to hear others are out there in the same boat. I

received an e-mail from CLV last week saying they were

waiting to contact Residelia - the person there is on

holidays. If they hear nothing by 30 September then they

suggest we proceed with a command de payer.

I am also about €300 euro out on the payment from the

developer for late delivery.

I guess we need to wait to see what CLV will suggest.