20 Août 2010 by sandrag

Pierre Et Vacances

is anyone else due to renew their P&V lease. Are you happy with the renovations/renovation prices and conditions. Have you had any problems with holiday week bookings?

Commentaires

sandrag

22 Août 2010

27K Euros inc VAT for a 2/3 pieces 6/7 personnes apartment, which seem very high but it seems it is take it or leave it if we wish to renew our lease. Have you had any experience with P&V.

pboyles

1 Janvier 2011

Well I intend to find out what happens if you don't pay up. My opinion

us that this whole leaseback thing is a scam so they will have their

work cut out getting 20 or 30 grand from me!

olly

1 Janvier 2011

Thanks for your reply.


My experience is the same as yours re. promises of apartment being returned in perfect condition etc. and doing what you want at the end of the lease.


I understand what you are saying regarding the refurb costs. It even states on P&V website that they charge for refurbishment.I also am aware of the statutory law that allows management companies to demand compensaion for non renewal of the lease.I am just puzzled that they are able to put people in a position where they may not be able to afford either option.After all, the sort of returns P&V pay, will not cover most mortgages (unless one has paid a very large deposit) let alone putting money aside for refurbishment.


pboyles

1 Janvier 2011

I should add that when I bought neither charge was mentioned, in fact

quite the opposite was stressed ie it would be returned in perfect

condition with no strings attached. It seems we were all lied to, it's

just yet another mid-selling scam.

pboyles

1 Janvier 2011

The charge for refurbishment if you DO renew has been confirmed by

PV. The charge for NOT renewing is related to the fact that they have

a right to compensation if you refuse to renew the lease. Apparently

this is contained in the relevant French law, not your lease agreement.

There is some confusion about how this will/can be enforced so it is

not as clear cut as the refurb charge.

olly

1 Janvier 2011

Can this be correct?


I can understand that P&V might want to refurbish the apartments at the end of the lease but to be forced to pay compensation if you don't renew?


There will be many people that cannot afford to do either.I wonder what happens then.

pboyles

29 Décembre 2010

I posted this in another section but thought I should repeat it here as

well. There will be a substantial charge imposed for refurbishment at

the end of our lease. This may be up to 19,000 euros. This charge will

be made if you renew your lease. If you do not renew it then I believe

the situation is that they will try to take two years rent from you in

compensation. However this matter was not addressed at the AGM

only the refurb costs.

sandrag

8 Septembre 2010

We have not been told of any penalty cost if we don't renew, and can see no mention of it. However, I saw this mentioned somewhere else so I will check it out. When we bought our apartment in 2003, it was not new. It was a re-sale and we took over the lease from the previous owner, who had renewed it a couple of years before, so perhaps penalties only refer to the first renewal? Or perhaps they have been introduced after our apartment/lease commenced.

pboyles

8 Septembre 2010

Can you give us any more information? I was told that there would be a substantial cost if you DID NOT agree to renew. Personally I dont want to renew so if what you say holds true when my lease expires I'll be very happy.

sandrag

8 Septembre 2010

The lease will only be renewed by P&V if we agree to pay the renovation costs. If we thus choose not to renew, we will presumably then take over the keys and running of the apartment ourselves, and of course then pay annual maintenance charges and taxe d'habitation and TV licence.


pboyles

8 Septembre 2010

I'm a bit shocked to read about charges for renovations. My P&V apartment (originally MGM) was sold to me on the understanding that at the end of the lease it would be returned to me in perfect condition and would be mine to do with as I please.

Are you saying that you must pay the renovation costs if you want to renew the lease? What happens if you dont want to renew the lease?

To be honest I feel this whole leaseback thing has turned into a massive scam. I have a place in MGM Les Fermes Du Soliel, Les Carroz by the way.

pboyles40429.6457523148

Portrait de kodelig

kodelig

7 Septembre 2010

We too would be interested to know the outcome of your negotiations. We bought with PV 3 years ago so still have time to run on our lease but have experienced similar problems with exchanges not being equivalent to our own property even in similar tourist areas - we would expect less for our money exchanging Brittany for S of France but not for the Picardy coast! Good luck with it!

sandrag

25 Août 2010

No, we have been given 2 different options for the number of weeks we use ourselves, but the rent is pro rata and not increased.

rasher

25 Août 2010

Hi Sandrag.


Curious to know if the rental agreement in the renewed lease has increased to cover some of this extra cost.


Rasher.


JuanAzur

22 Août 2010

Let me get this straight - you buy the apartment from them and then most of the rent they pay you is taken back by them for refurbishments. So what is in it for you? No wonder this business model is successful.
JuanAzur40412.9483912037

sandrag

22 Août 2010

It is certainly worth a try and I will speak to them tomorrow. I won't hold my breath!!! I guess it may depend on how many acceptances of new leases they have received. As the renovation cost will take up a large proportion of the rent receivable for the next 9 year lease term, and also the fact that many owners may not be able to afford the cost in the current climate, it will be interesting. Many thanks for your input

Frenchdream

22 Août 2010

Not all companies charge such high fees for renovation, maybe you can negotiate the renovation cost with P&V (you have nothing to lose)

sandrag

22 Août 2010

At the moment, with the P&V lease, we have our allotted number of low, medium, and high season weeks which we have to book by a set date to guarantee getting the week of our choice. We can also exchange and stay in an apartment in a different location within the P&V group in France. This systems suits us very well.


If we don't renew our lease, the property comes back to us full time and they give us the keys. We then are responsible for our own internal maintenance I believe, and internal decoration. We would also not be able to exchange. We would also have to pay the annual maintenance charges and tax d'habitation. We can only renew the lease if we agree to pay for the renovations as per their schedule.


We don't have an issue with the system, but do feel the renovation costs are very high. We also feel P&V are not as helpful as they could be to owners in answering any questions/queries, confirming bookings, it is difficult to get through to their owners booking department, and the exchange apartments are not always quite what we are entitled to, eg sometimes smaller, or without sea view, etc.


We also have in the last year had to pay VAT to French tax department on the rent received, which was not mentioned when we were quoted the rent return information originally when purchasing the apartment. (our purchase was a re-sale - not a new apt)


We have asked for a list of owners contact details in the past and received no reply, but I have read a useful item on this on this website so will follow that up.


I have only just discovered the frenchleaseback website and will watch it with interest



regards




JuanAzur

22 Août 2010

No. As I posted before on this forum, leasebacks are differentiated from timeshares on the basis that they are freehold properties. It goes against the fundamental concept of freehold that a sitting tenant dictates to the owner what has to be spent. What happens if you don'r renew you lease? This whole issue needs to be looked at by the French government.

Vron

13 Novembre 2013

We have an apartment at Les Carroz - Fermes du Soleil - P&V.  New lease and rennovations due next year.  Am feeling very nervous about it all.  Think owners need to identify each other and speak with one voice.  Is that possible?

 

Vron

13 Novembre 2013

We have an apartment at Les Carroz - Fermes du Soleil - P&V.  New lease and rennovations due next year.  Am feeling very nervous about it all.  Think owners need to identify each other and speak with one voice.  Is that possible?

Lescarroz

29 Septembre 2014

We have decided not to renew our lease and take full ownership...all seems to be going smoothly so far..the bailif has terminated the lease at our instruction and P&V have confirmed no penalty charged will be applied...so hopefully a straight forward hand over on the 12th December....they are not prepared to say how many have renewd their leases until this date, nor the charges for using the pool etc....but it has to be better than paying for the refurb costs....anyone else taken this option and have any more info?

 

Portrait de kodelig

kodelig

18 Novembre 2014

I too am watching with interest. What will happen about the VAT payment? Will you be liable to pay back the pro rata of that or are you going to rent out through an agent so keeping the appartment as a holiday rental?  I thought I had read somewhere that the rentals had to be done as a group of appartments for the VAT rule still to apply but I may have got that wrong.

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